Death Before The Fall

"As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. - 1 Timonty 1:3-4

I have a problem with Calvinism. I'm not so sure that it's a doctrine of Scripture more than a philosophical argument that ministers questions to believers & unbelievers alike, rather than godly edifying.

John Calvin and his followers teach this human wisdom so they might say with the Psalmist, "Make me to understand the way of thy precepts: so shall I talk of thy wonderous works." (Psalm 119:27). In writing to the church at Colasse, Paul warned, "Beware, lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ." (Colossians 2:8) Paul also wrote basically the same words of concern to the church at Corinth, "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ." (2 Corinthians 11:3)

I'll be completely honest and say that I strugglewith the doctrine's of Grace (Calvinism) and I think it will be a thorn in my flesh until I die. Predestination is spoken of in the Bible, namely the last half of Romans 8 & all of Romans 9, with sporadic verses here & there. To be sure, predestionation is a Biblical concept, but not the way John Calvin teaches. One of the most dangerous things is to imagine things about God & then preach them as truth.

Problem One: Death Before The Fall

According to John Calvin, "The reprobate, like the elect, are appointed to be so by the secret council of God's will." (Calvin's Institutes II, chapter xxii, page 11) and "…their doom was fixed from all eternity and nothing in them could transfer them to a contrary class…" (Calvin’s Institutes III, chapter iii, page 4). Also, according to Calvin, "…Not all men are created with similar destiny but eternal life is foreordained for some, and eternal damnation for others. Every man, therefore, being created for one or the other of these ends, we say, he is either predestined either to life or death" (Calvin’s Institutes III, chapter xxiii).

In Calvin's thinking, God appointed some of His future creation to eternal damnation. If Calvin is to be believed, then we must understand that God placed death upon certain men before the creation of man and before the fall of Adam. I don't think that's consistant with Biblical information.

God, in His omniscience, knew that death would not come into existence until Adam fell. Genesis 2:17 states, "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." It was at the time of Adam’s fall that God placed death (physical and spiritual) upon the human race, not before the creation of man, and definitely not before man’s fall into sin. The Bible says, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" (Rom. 5:12). Death did not pass unto men until man’s sin, "For since by man came death…" (1 Cor. 15:21).

Am I the only one who notices that at the time of Adam’s sin, death (physical and spiritual) passed "upon all men" not a "class" of men as Calvin taught? It is worth noting that the Bible clearly teaches that men will suffer God’s eternal judgment of their sin after they are righteously judged by God at the future Great White Throne judgment (Rev. 20:11-15). Nowhere does the Scripture teach that God has appointed certain men to perdition prior to their creation by Him.

We know from the Biblical record that all of God’s creation was good including man, "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good…" (Gen. 1:31). We also know that God created all men for His pleasure as Revelation 4:11 states, "For thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." Ezekiel 18:23,32 and 33:11 teach that God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. God would not have placed eternal death upon men and separation from Him before He created them, and at the same time say He created them for His pleasure. Much less would God pronounce His creation good if before its existence He had plagued His creation with the death of certain men. However, this is exactly what Calvin and his followers teach.

Steven Houck, in a sermon he preached, " God’s Sovereignty in Salvation," states, "His will is so sovereign that He has determined just exactly what comes to pass in this world. God has determined and appointed absolutely everything…. What is even more amazing is that this determination took place in eternity…. Since God is the sovereign God, Whose counsel stands forever, Whose will can never be frustrated, and Whose purpose is not disannulled; we must conclude that His will and determination is sovereign particularly in salvation…. For He is the infinite Creator Who has the right and power to do with His finite creatures exactly what he pleases. . .even with respect to eternal destiny. For since God is sovereign, His will must not only be the determining factor in salvation, but also in everlasting destruction. God not only selects some to be saved and glorified, but He also appoints others to destruction."

What?!?!

Did God appoint some to eternal destruction? Did it please God to determine eternal death to some before their creation by God? In Ezekiel 33:11, the Lord makes a very interesting statement about Himself. He says, "Say unto them, as I live, sayeth the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked…." Notice that God prefaces His statement with, "As I live." Ummm...how long has God lived? The Scriptures teach that God is eternal and He changes not. Therefore, from eternity past (that is throughout all of eternity and even before the creation of man) God has never had any pleasure in the death of the wicked. How can Houck say, "God not only selects some to be saved and glorified, but He also appoints others to destruction"? when man fell into sin, the two-pronged dagger of death (physical and spiritual) entered the human race. These two points of the dagger are not mutually exclusive of one another and never have been. To say that God applied spiritual death to certain men prior to the fall of man not only makes God a liar regarding His statements about His creation work, but also displays a significant lack of trust in God’s revealed word.

It is also doctrinal error since predestination in the Scripture only concerns itself with making a believer’s future adoption certain. Dr. H. A. Ironside wrote concerning predestination, "It is the Father who has predestinated us to the adoption of children. Nowhere in the Bible are people ever predestinated to go to hell, and nowhere are people ever predestinated to go to heaven. Look it up and see. We are chosen in Christ to share His glory for eternity, but predestination is always to some special place of blessing. Turn to Romans 8:29. Predestinated to what? Predestinated ‘to be conformed to the image of His Son.’ You see, predestination is not God from eternity saying ‘This man goes to Heaven and this man goes to hell.’ No, but predestination teaches me that when I have believed in Christ, when I have trusted Him as my Saviour, I may know on the authority of God that it is settled forever that some day I am to become exactly like my Saviour" (In the Heavenlies, Expository Addresses on Ephesians, pp. 34-35).

In Romans 8:29 we are told, "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren." Concerning this verse, (Romans 8:29), Dr. W. L. Pettingill wrote, "Whosoever will may come. He [man] is only to come, and God does all the rest. God will…undertake for him, and thereafter see to it that all things work together for good unto him. This is His eternal purpose which He purposed before the world was…. The word ‘for’ in verse 29, has the force of ‘because’ and it introduces the reason for our assurance that all things are working together for our good…. The past tense continues through the whole passage, although the glorification is yet future, for God is able to count things done even when they have not been done.

Our glorification is according to His purpose, and nothing is to be suffered to thwart His purpose. Having been foreknown and predestinated and called and justified, we will also be "glorified" (Bible Questions Answered, p. 374). Predestination has nothing whatsoever to do with sending certain people to heaven and others to damnation as Calvin taught. Predestination’s purpose (according to Scripture) is to conform the believer to the image of God’s Son. Mark G. Camron, a preacher & professor said, "Scripture teaches that God has predestinated those who have believed (and those who will believe) to be conformed to the image of His Son. In other words, it is the plan of God, determined beforehand, that every believer is going to be made like unto the Lord Jesus Christ…. God has determined that those who are saved are going to be like His Son" (The New Testament. . .A Book-by-Book Survey, pp. 200-201).

C. H. Spurgeon declared, "Mark then, with care, that OUR CONFORMITY TO CHRIST IS THE SACRED OBJECT OF PREDESTINATION" (Treasury of the New Testament, Vol. II, p. 72; emphasis Spurgeon’s). This conformity to the image of Jesus Christ will take place when the body is redeemed at Christ’s future appearing and this will be the time of our adoption. Romans 8:23 says, "And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body." Ephesians 1:5 says, "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will." This verse explains that the believer is predestined to adoption. However, as mentioned, adoption is defined for us in Romans 8:23 as future, occurring at the redemption of our body. Adoption is what we are predestined for. Adoption is receiving the full privileges of being a child of God, whereas presently we only have the firstfruits of the Spirit. Adoption is not our salvation. We are born again into the family of God, not adopted. The belief that adoption and the new birth are the same thing is wrong and is not the teaching of God’s Word. Adoption takes place when a believer receives his glorified body and is conformed to the image of God’s Son.

Writing on the subject of adoption the well known Baptist pastor I. M. Haldeman explained, "There are great facts concerning us as believers which relate us to the dispensation of the fullness of times…. He has predestinated us to the place of sons in that dispensation, as it is written (Ephesians one)…. The expression, ‘the adoption of children’ in the Greek is uiothesia…. The compound word, therefore, signifies ‘son placing. . .the place of a son.’ Thus, as believers, we have been predestinated in that coming dispensation to the place of sons" (The Book of the Heavenlies, pp. 4-5).

The teaching of predestination by Calvin and his followers is clearly in contradiction to Biblical revelation. Recognizing there are only two chapters in Scripture where the words predestinate or predestinated are found (Romans 8:29-30; Ephesians 1:5,11) and understanding that there is no reference in these four verses to Heaven or hell, but only to believers ultimate conformity to Jesus Christ, John Calvin’s teaching on predestination must be rejected. It is human wisdom attempting to mix itself with God’s pure Word.

Former pastor, Edward Drew said, "People have had it drilled into them that away in the past God foreordained [predestined] that certain people should be lost and certain others should be saved. I would like to get that out of your minds this morning. Just let me begin by saying that that isn’t in the Bible…. God’s predestination is not salvation. God’s predestination is that those who receive the Lord shall be like the Lord Jesus. That is predestination and nothing else is. God from the beginning, by His foreknowledge, predestinated that every believer should be made like Christ, and nothing else in the Book is predestination. That predestination is that God ordained one to be saved and another to be lost in hell eternally is not within the covers of this Book…. God has ordained from the foundation of the world that if you will trust His Son, He will make you like His Son. That is what we have here…. Those whom God predestinated to be like Christ, He called out. . .not before He saved them, but when He saved them, He called them out to be like Him…. It isn’t that God called you and didn’t call somebody else. God’s predestination is being worked out now. In eternity past He determined that you should be like Jesus, and now that you are saved He calls you out, that while you are here you should show forth the Lord Jesus Christ" (Morning message on Romans 8: 29-32; March 1, 1942).

"The Whore Of Babylon"

I have several problems with theology.

2 Timothy 3: 16 says, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" Doctrine simply means a body of teachings. It's plain - you read God's Word, you believe God's Word, you follow God's Word.

I'm not here to disprove Calvinism, because I'm not smart enough for that. I'm not fluent in Greek or Hebrew, and I don't have access to the original scrolls. I'm simply finding out why I don't believe in something. Namely, Calvinism.

John Calvin has many other credits to his name, but what he's remembered the most for is his building on Augustine & Luther's concept of predestionation. He says in his, The Institues Of The Christian Religion:

[In conformity, therefore, to the clear doctrine of the Scripture, we assert, that by an eternal and immutable counsel, God has once for all determined, both whom he would admit to salvation, and whom he would condemn to destruction. We affirm that this counsel, as far as concerns the elect, is founded on his gratuitous mercy, totally irrespective of human merit; but that to those whom he devotes to condemnation, the gate of life is closed by a just and irreprehensible, but incomprehensible, judgment. In the elect, we consider calling as an evidence of election, and justification as another token of its manifestation, till they arrive in glory, which constitutes its completion. As God seals his elect by vocation and justification, so by excluding the reprobate from the knowledge of his name and the sanctification of his Spirit, he affords an indication of the judgement that awaits them.]

That's downright scary.

Even the fall of Adam and Eve, with all its consequences, in the Pauline theory, to the human race, "was ordained by the admirable counsel of God."

This is what I don't understand. I know that God allowed sin in the world through the fall, because how else would we know His goodness & His power & His triumph if we couldn't see it being contrasted by evil? However, algebraically speaking, this would make God the author of sin.

Calvin admits that predestination is repulsive to reason, but he replies, "It is unreasonable that man should scrutinize with impunity those things wich the Lord has determined to be hidden in Himself." Yet, he professes to know why God so arbitrarily determines the eternal fate of billions of souls: it is, "to promote our admiration of His glory," by the display of His Power. (pt 23)

Calvin also admits that this is, "a horrible decree," (decretum horribile). "but no one can deny that God foreknew the future final fate of man before He created him, and that He foreknew it because it was appointed by His own decree." (http://www.eternalsecurity.us/calvinism_and_arminianism_compar.htm)

Others might argue, like Luther, that the guture is determined because God has forseen it and His foresight cannot be falsified; Calvin reverses the matter, and considers that God foresees the future because He has willed and determined it. And the decree of damnation is absolute; there is no purgatory in Calvin's theology, no halfway house where one might, by a few million years of burning, wipe out his, "reprobation." And therefore, there is no room for prayers for the dead.

we might suppose that on calvin's assumptions, there would be no sense in any kind of prayer; all being fixed by divine decree, not an ocean of orisons could wash away one jot of this destiny. However, Calvin is more human than his theology: let us pray with humility and faith, he tells us, and our prayers will be answered; the prayer and the answer were already decreed. Let us worship God in humble religious services, but we must reject the Mass as a sacrilegious pretense of priests to transform earthly materials into the body and blood of Christ. Christ is present in the Eucharist only spiritually, not physically; and the adoration of the consecrated wafter as literally Christ is sheer idolatry. The use of graven images of the Deity, in clear violation of the second Commandment, encourages idolatry. All religious pictures and statuary, even the crucifix, should be removed from the churches.

The true Church is the ivisible congregation of the elect, dead, living, or to be born. The visible Church is composed of, "all those who, by a confession of faith, an exemplary life, and participation in the sacraments of baptism and the Lord's supper" (Calvin rejected the other sacraments), "profess the same God and Christ with ourselves."

Outside of the church there is no salvation.

Church and state are both divine, and are designed by God to work in harmony as the soul and body of one Christian society: the Church should regulate all details of faith, worship, and morals; the state, as the physical arm of the Church, should enforce these regulations. The secular authorities must also see to it that "idolatry" )largely synonymous with Catholicism in Protestant usage) and, "other scandals to religion be not publicaly set forth and broadcast amonth the people," and that only the pure Word of God should be taught and received. The ideal government will be a theocracy, and the Reformed Church should be recoginized as the voice of God. All the claims of the popes for the supremacy of the Church over the state were renewed by Calvin for his Church.

To sum all of that up - Calvin didn't want to be subject to the Catholic church. I'm not saying that He wanted to be a leader - a "pope" of sorts - but there was definitely a spirit of pride about him.

I'm going to dig further into his life, why he wrote the Institutes, what exactly happened when the Reformation came about and how it affects us today, what exactly IS Calvinism, and whatever else piques my interest. :)

Calvinism

I'm always searching for something.

Lately, I've been trying to find the truth in Calvinism.

To be sure, Calvinisim is a 'terrible decree.' I believe in predestination because it's spoken of in the Bible (Romans 8:28-30, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Acts 13:48, Ephesians 1:4-6) but I don't know that I accept John Calvin's Institutes Of the Christian Religion, which is a 1,000+ page work that details in depth the Soverignty of God, His good pleasure to damn man to hell and our reprobate condition.

This blog is just a place for me to keep all of my ideas, research and revelation concerning this, 'terrible decree.'